Information needed from CIC
This is an application under Right to Information Act. Postal Order for Rs10 is attached as required. Queries are:
1. While replying to RTI applications, many PIOs do not cite reference number of the letter even where reference number is explicitly stated. This leads to avoidable problems in documentation and filing at applicant’s end. Whether such PIOs are violating code of official conduct or normal protocol of correspondance? Whether this current application will be taken by CIC as basis to pass or to renew instruction to all PIOs to cite reference number of RTI application wherever such reference number is provided?
2. In a large number of goverment departments, a single RTI application is being replied to by dozens of officers, each reply about the small bit concerning that officer’s section. The result is that the individual RTI applicant is flooded with correspondance in response to a single application, much of the replies with no meaningful message, but with which the different officers are only trying to serve the purpose of shielding themselves. In responserecently to a single RTI application to the sales tax dept of Delhi, a dozen or so letters were received from ward after ward all letters with similar message which did not convey much. Individual citizens do not have office staff or space or time for such meaningless exercises, and such practices of government officers only defeat the intention of the legislators, who wanted the provisions and use of the RTI Act to be simple for all citizens. Furthermore, such loads of paperwork puts huge burden on the postal department. The local postman and his supervisor demand bakshish, whic if given is irresponsible conduct and moreover it creates hunger for more, and if not given some important letters are delayed as further hint. The result is that the individual citizen finds writing RTI applications a painful proposition, so once again a law created by lawmakers for citizens is defeated by bureacracy. Will CIC kindly take cognizance, and pass instructions for all necessary correspondance to be collected by the nodal PIO handling the case, who will send it once a month in a single packet to the applicant? If this is not the solution, CIC to inform whether in any meeting or in any other form this problem has been deliberated upon and if yes then attach copy of deliberations/ minutes of meeting.
3. Many government departments use cryptic language for designations of officers, and many do not put complete or any address of sender on the letter. An RTI applicant to the Railways department recently received copy of a letter sent by DyCC/DB to DyCCM/C. All citizens may not be aware of code language of the Railways. The letter also has no address of sender. Rubber stamp on envelope is illegible. Whether such PIOs are violating code of official conduct or normal protocol of correspondance? Whether this application will be taken by CIC as basis to pass or to renew instruction to all PIOs to give full designations of officers, to give full address of sender including pin code, telephone number, and email while replying to RTI applications?
4. The CIC website has a lfor the filing of RTI applications, but nothing is mentioned whether fees is payable and mode of payment. Moreover, after filing, when sender happens to check status after a few days, a message appears that hard copy awaited. Why cannot soft copy from encrypted software be accetable? And if hard copy is neccessary, why this requirement is kept hidden at the time of filing?
Suggestions to this RTI are invited from RTI-Anon and others
1. There isn’t any such instructions except that the PIO while replying must provide details of the First Appellate Authority, calculation of charges ect- Sec 7(3) RTIA.Even if such instructions have to be issued, they are done by DoPT( which till date has not been able to get all Public Authorities to reveal their email id and FAX Numbers). But you can try.
2. Designation of Nodal PIO/CPIO is not mandatory. To best of my knowledge the system described by you is followed by the Railways( and few other ministeries such as MNRE) which have a single point contact for the public.However there is a ruling by CIC as to how a PIO is required to function while transfering within the Public authority and outside. I think the order says that while transfering within the Public Authority to another deptt he should obtain the information and provide a consolidated reply.
3.Railways follow this system because you are required to communicate only with the Central PIO.
4. E-filing on CIC website is meaningless as no cognisance is taken of your complaint/appeal is taken till receipt of hard copy. The diary number is also allotted as per date of receipt of hard copy. You can check the status by calling the helpline. The web entry is never updated. However thinks are set to change in couple of months after which all information will be online( so the CIC says).
Sir,
Based on your comments, I think this is not something that we can file an RTI. Please confirm
There are 4 questions in the RTI. All these concern specific problems being faced by the public in the operation of RTI. Mr nighwatch mentions about a ruling by CIC on how a PIO is required to function. On the highlighted issues too, our objective is to get such rulings. Only CIC can do so. We have to draft our RTI in a manner to get him to act. If there is no further tinkering in the draft, then this itself can go. As Mr nigtwatch says, no harm trying.
Also, after Mr Anand asked for confirmation, I rushed to the internet today morning before he unceremoniously pushes away the RTI somewhere. In many parts of our country there is no electricity for weeks at a stretch. People living there, or anywhere else, are all welcome to be part of the RTI Anon family. We need to keep a matter open for reply for at least 10 days. Apart from electricity, there are other access issues. If “Unprocessed RTI” section is to remain uncluttered, let us have a section titled “Under Drafting RTI” where these can go. In the current section titled “Drafted RTIs” there are still many where drafting is going on. A person on way to office or college who wants to print a few then proceed to the post office, has to first search which among the “Drafted (Ready To Print and Post) RTI” section, to see which ones are really ready to print and post.
I undertake to print and post this RTI, and will inform speedpost number here.
Malathy ji
This post has not been moved to any category. I
have just asked Mr. Nightwatch, can I move it to a different category.
Our intention here is to file an RTI, that is the most effective and get the relevant documents. Our intention is to ensure that a govt. official, does not reject your application, under some real excuse.
Just, bcos you have filed an RTI, does not mean that the govt. official will send the document. Long rhetorical questions, that do not come under the purview of the RTI Act, will immediate be caught on and will be used as an excuse to reject the application or givce partial information.
I strongly urge you to also control the tone of your comments. This is a voluntary orgn. and it really affects the morale of the other team members, with some of the choice of your words
Oops it wasnt meant that way. Maybe the response came because of the question put to a commentator but original complainant had been blanked out completely. Within 3 hours of comment from mr nightwatch a question was put to him to confirm that rti was not needed on this. Original complainant was just forgotten. Perhaps his response could have also been solicited. And explicitly stated that adequate time is available for reply. It is just my good fortune that mr nightwatch did not immediately reply to the question put to him. I remember that morning i rushed to find internet leaving everything else aside, and then typing away with great speed lest a single word (yes or ok) arrive from mr nightwatch and changes the destiny of the rti. Similar things have happened in the past. There was no time to review the draft.
Malathy ji
Not a single request on this forum is deleted. Yes, I do solicit information and do not agree with you that a request should be sent as is to the Government official.
We believe that the its is the duty of the original complainant to try to draft the RTI in the right format and provide us and our duty should be only to file it on their behalf.
RTI Anonymous is solely meant to protect people who find themselves under threat (physically/careerwise/job-related etc.), if they file these RTI’s under their name.
Anything else, beyond this is soleley a courtesy extended, beyond the original agenda/intention of this organization
There are other organizations like RTI Nation, RTI-Aid and such which specialize in helping people to draft RTI’s
The intention here is also to get the correct answer as quickly as possible and not just fall prey to the excuses of the PIO.
That means we should try to send (as a much as possible) , a properly well drafted RTI Application. Not just copy paste, whatever the applicant has put into a MS word document
Any comment put here goes to the original complainant automatically, with the link to his request. So even if his request has been recategorized, he can still access it. Also doing a Search (on the top-right ) is another way to find an application. If a post is recategorized, it is not permanent. Once a satisfactory reply is recieved, I personally nsure that it is brought back to its proper category.
This system ensures that the requestor is actively involved here and not just puts some request here and forgets about it.
I respect the Comments from Mr. Nightwatch, k3kish, skywalker, RK, Vinitaji etc. and would mention to you that behind these userid, we are dealing with highly seasoned RTI activists and experienced Govt. officials experts in various laws and rules. Their comments will always be valued very dearly.
I would urge you to restrain yourself from just taking printout of any request and send it to a PIO. It is a completely waste of time and would essentially deviate you from filing some genuine cases, that really need anonymity. Also, let us encourage the original requestor to respond back with clear informations and good draft. Let us teach them (in a a little unorthodox way, for sure) on how to draft a good and effective RTI application, and not just write a long 10 page story on their request
Coming back to this specific RTI Request, I very strongly think that this needs to be drafted, to have strong specific point.
If we file the RTI, in the exact format, in which this has been written, it will be simply rejected and I really would feel bad, when this application will be rejected under some real nonsensical pretext by the govt. official
I have already invited drafting suggestions. If none received then i’ll take the original draft. A complaint must not be deleted only because someone feels query has not been drafted nicely. That would be throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. If no good draft is found or no consensus reached, we send the original complaint as it is. The PIO may reject, but his reply will also guide how to approach the issue. Of course a part chance is that a good reply may come.
Some of these problems are being faced at RTI Anon itself, as well as by other rti applicants all over.
1. We are all clear that this is a nonannonymous RTI and it has been posted to obtain views/inputs of stakeholders.Anand, madam is right in saying that if it is moved to resolved or any other category comments/inputs will cease.
2. I recommend we wait for Madam to arrive at a conclusion and then we can move it to resolved nonannoy category.
3. Madam can at her will file the RTI in the form she desires and on receipt of a reply, we will be grateful, if she shares it with us.
Progress from being non-RTI to non-anonymous RTI !
As I had mentioned, these problems are being faced at RTI Anon mostly, at the document-processing centre at kharagpur. Others are also facing it. On behalf of everyone it is better if a body like RTI Anon handles it than an individual.
As for me, I have a problem using my address. In some RTIs I filed, there were hundreds of nonsensical responses, so postmen and their supervisors now look for bakshish, which if delayed or not given, my other important correspondence is being held up. There are also other problems.
The moving of a request to a different category is done, solely by me and it is based on comments received from Mr. Nightwatch and others.
RTI Anonymous is solely meant to protect people who find themselves under threat (physically/careerwise/job-related etc.), if they file these RTI’s under their name.
Anything else, beyond this is just a courtesy extended, beyond the original agenda/intention of this organization
There are other organizations like RTI Nation, RTI-Aid and such which specialize in helping people to draft RTI’s
We have to differentiate here from filing every RTI’s to filing only those RTI’s that conform to the agenda of this organization. We do make exceptions, as need basis (like somebody needing their PF’s etc.)
This organization would always remain as one which would file Anonymous RTI requests and not just file every RTI requests
As such, please confirm what Mr. Nightwatch mentioned above. Do you think that this RTI request needs anonymity or not. If not, I will move it to the non-anon category and let the original requestor file it himself or thru other organizations who specialize in non-anonymous RTI’s filing.
Alternatively, if you wish to File it yourself, then please send me an email at rtia-usa@getup4change.org and I will provide you the email address of thr original requestor. You can also request the same by asking it via a comment on this post.
After reading the request that this request will not harm the original requestor physically or careerwise, if he files it himself.
This one does not need anonymity.
The agenda of RTI-A is “JUST” to protect people who find themselves under threat (physically/careerwise/job-related etc.), if they file these RTI’s under their name.
Anything else, beyond this is just a courtesy extended, beyond the original agenda/intention of this organization. We at RTI-A have made exceptions, to this anonymity rules on a very specific case-by-case basis (like somebody needing his PF cleared, or waiting for his passport etc.)
There are other organizations like RTI Nation, RTI-Aid and such which specialize in helping people to draft RTI’s and file it under non-anonymously
As such, I would like to move this to the non-anonymous Category. If I find a strong reason, why this needs to be anonymous, I will recategorize it back
Based on the request from Ms. malathi Dev, (direct email to me), i am moving this back to unprocessed RTI , temporarily
Anand
As mr nightwatch says, if moved to any other category, comments/inputs will cease. Inputs are needed on the issues concern all RTI applicants.
As for anonymity, of course my security is at stake. Why else would I spend so much time and energy in all this correspondence at RTI Anon? If it was possible for me I would have straightaway posted all my RTIs as I have been doing in the past. Problem came when I was pursuing a case with the police. They are trying to save a very very senior officer and his nephew from being caught for a gruesome crime. This is not new in India. Recall nitish katara, jessica lal, priyadarshini mattoo, y s sachan, ruchika, and many more. In all these cases, the offenders were being protected not just by their fathers or uncles, but by thousands of government servants of all ranks, who ganged up to help their seniors, dropping all scruples. It is for this reason that mail service to me has dried up. Bakshish by postmen is only the excuse. Phone calls are being intercepted. A DCP tried to help but now whenever I go near his office, a heavy vehicle brushes past me, every time. Some of you guys are in the US, and have nothing to fear from Indian govt staff, so try to leave enough leeway to people in India trying to get justice from a rotting system, instead of being pushy like the characterless govt servants here.
Indeed we have a galaxy of talents like Mr. Nightwatch, k3kish, skywalker, RK, Vinitaji, helpinghand etc. We can be humble about it instead of sounding pompous. Let people request our drafting skills, instead of we imposing it on people. If Dr Madhavan Nair, ace space scientist and the man behind India’s moon mission, currently in a tiff with the govt over a commercial deal, wantssome info from govt files to fight his casewith the govt, and writes an RTI with technical background to queries running into 10 pages, are we going to insist that he must accept the suggestions of our experts Mr. Nightwatch, k3kish, skywalker, RK, Vinitaji, helpinghand etc., else dr madhavan can go to rti nation or rti aid? Why we never know, some applicant may be a chief secretary to the govt of india. Are we going to insist that we must “teach” him? Our novel service is anonymity, drafting and suggestions are only our additional offers if someone wants, though we have redoubtable experts in the field. Yes, we help PIOs if application is drafted well, but if dr madhavan does not want any changes,are we going to mistreat him in his low position by asking him to shoo off to rti nation or rti aid if he refuses our drafting? Let us not force things down people’s throat.
I have read thru all your comments. and fundamentally this is an organization which is interested in filing effective RTI’s that produce results. If the experts in RTI-Anon feel that the application needs editting or the applicant needs to be educated in drafting the RTI application, then it is our paramount duty to educate, “teach” him. Person’s designation has nothing to do with this and everybody is equal here.
If Dr. Madhavan does not want any change, but if the experts feel, that Madhavan’s draft needs changes, I will 100% go with the expert view and not Mr. Madhavan’s view.
You disagree with this view of RTI-Anonymous, but this is the only way for us to maintain an order and discipline. This is the only way, we can achieve our final goal of making every citizen of India, learn “how to draft/file RTI’s”
We have no intention of forcing anything down people’s throats. Our intention is to teach people, how to eat effectively and leanr how to file effective RTI’s based on the experience and expertise of people like yourself and Nightwatch, k3kish, skywalker, RK, Vinitaji etc.
This message is being written at 6 pm India time. People in India will soon retire to their beds. North India has been under a cold wave. People in the US will get active at the same time,in a couple of hours from now. If any questions are put from the US, people in India will be unable to reply immediately. US party then acts. Allowing for the time zones differences, let matters stay long enough for people in other time zones to see and respond.
Malathy ji
This post has been up for more than 4 days since its been posted. The original applicant would have recieved atleast 10+ emails , everytime somebody puts a comment on this post.
We have not got even one reply back.
Per nightwatch and other experts, whom I have personally consulted I feel that this post does not need anonymity.
I brought it back, giving respect to your personal email, which mentioned that you have reasons to believe that this post needs anonymity.
In the last 3 comments, I do not see any such solid reasoning.
I will wait for another 2 days (that way all time zone issues are also resolved) and then move it to Non Anonymous request.
In the meanwhile, if you provide me a strong reason on why this needs to be anonymous, I am extremely open and ready to listen to you
Planning to move this to Non Anon category Sometime after Feb 2nd 6AM
Based on the reply, that I have recieved (directly on my email) from the “original requestor” whose identity needs to be kept secret (as per his request), the following is the conclusion to this request.
The “original requestor” will be filing this RTI himself, under the name & address of one of the RTI-A volunteers
I would be keeping this post under the Unprocessed Category, till the The “original requestor” provides me the speed-post number which would be during the first half of Feb.
Once we recieve the speedpost number, I will move this to the Filed RTI Category.
“The rti to CIC will be filed and speedpost no will be mentioned within first half of feb.”
In the meanwhile, if anybody reads this entire request please feel free to add in your valuable comments so that the “original requestor” can draft an effective RTI application, which does not get rejected by the PIO
I am the “original requestor”, and had asked nobody to hide this. The RTI-Anonymous website software itself is designed in a way to hide the original requestor’s name, as revealed by Mr Anand in his “private mail” to me. If there is to be a section titled Under_Processing RTIs or Under_Drafting RTIs then this page may now be moved there, or else to Drafted RTIs section.
I will mention here the speedpost consignment number and upload final copy within first half of February.
Sir,
Are you going to file this RTI as is .. without even drafting this anymore ?
Are you sure, that this RTI application will not be rejected by the Govt. Officials ?
I hope that I am wrong here and you are proven right !! If we get a satisfactory reply back from the govt. official and this application is not rejected by them, in the current format, then it really would make a lot of people’s job easier ..
Will keep my fingers crossed and as I mentioned before .. I am praying that I would be proven wrong here
Please provide me the speed post number, after you file this application.
Till that time, I would leave this in the Unprocessed Category, in the hope that, we can get more people comment/provide a more effective draft of the same (if possible)
Anand
Madam,
I pray to the same Gods as you do, and hope one of our experts will try redrafting. You had mentioned wait till 12 Feb, so lets wait till then, then it be transferred, and then will be posted.
Note: RTI-Anonymous is a caste-free, religion-free, gender-free, location-free forum.
1. Absolutely Right. RTI-A is free from all biases but not sense and sensibility. Please note that when an RTI application is filed on behalf of a RTI-A team member then due diligence has to be excercised by the TEAM.
2. Total freedom when you are doing it in your name.
Thanks sir for the support
Absolutely right. This is why comment above of same date as the original post (Jan 27) has invited comments and not prohibited comments.
Try to say something positive rather than making personal criticism.
We can go step by step. Do you have anything to add to question no. 1? Personally I have never faced this problem from any PIO. But others are facing this problem. See what a Team member of RTI-Anonymous has to say about the problem highlighted in question no. 1:
“The problem in giving reference numbers to RTI Applications is that even if we write the reference numbers,most PIOs do not refer the RTI Application using the reference numbers….. Hence we thought it is better to write the date on which the RTI has been posted as that would leave us with only a few options to post the reply.
Yes the date makes it look old…. “.
Though original complainant above, that is me, has never faced this problem of PIOs not citing reference no. yet I have included this issue in this RTI above written by me because we believe in TEAM, so others problems should also be taken up.
If you are ok with question no. 1 as it is then confirm, so we could then go on to question no. 2. Such approach would make sense and sensibility.
I second that, thanks for the support.
If for some reason someone has received feedback through informal channels from CIC, that the CIC would not prefer this RTI be sent , then say so explicitly. In that case, the problems can be taken up with the CIC through these informal channels instead of RTI, if CIC prefers so.
Now on to question no. 2. Many govt officers are deliberately overburdening the postal system to frighten away a normal citizen from applying RTI. One example: see Application no. 8946, where staff of the sales tax dept are trying to hide that there is large scale theft of sales tax.
Mr. Dev,
Just because there is a post and it is interesting/citicial/important enough , it does not mean we simply take a printout, in a hurry and file it.
Its ok, even if its delayed till we get a good draft. Its you who keep saying that not everybody has the access to computers everytime ..
If you still want to just file an RTI, by taking whatever is there, I cannot stop you. Its your monet, your time and your efforts. I, as fellow wellwisher do not wish that god intentions and efforts to go waste.
Let us be patient and not file an RTI, which is not drafted in a pertinent w ay. If that means we wait for 1-2 months , then so be it. This post will not be going anywhere. I don’t move things to different category, just arbitrarily
Anand
Lets all keep focus on the subject at hand.
So far no comments on Qs no.1 and 2. Anyway these are problems being faced by thousands of citizens everyday.
On Qs no. 3, govt servants behave as if citizens don’t exist. Letters to citizens are written as if its an intra-govt memo, with all kinds of acronyms, and full address of sender also missing. In days of old they could do this, but must change now. They need to write full designations and full addresses of officers, so applicants are not troubled unnecessarily.
Lets all keep focus on the subject at hand.
So far no comments on Qs no.1 and 2. Anyway these are problems being faced by thousands of citizens everyday.
On Qs no. 3, govt servants behave as if citizens don’t exist. Letters to citizens are written as if its an intra-govt memo, with all kinds of acronyms, and full address of sender also missing. In days of old they could do this, but must change now. They need to write full designations and full addresses of officers, so applicants are not troubled unnecessarily.
Malathy
On 9 february 2012 the CIC has passed a ruling “warning the govt against using labyrinths of government to hide files from being accessed by the public”. [Quote TOI] This is quite like the problem highlighted in Q2 and Q3 above, so let’s hope CIC adopts same approach while replying to this RTI.
Adding two more questions to the above RTI about the problem of delay by PIOs in replying. Many applications from RTI Anon receive late replies from PIOs. Others suffer too. Why have a time limit if it is not to be observed?
Q5. To calculate time-limit to reply, many PIOs start the count from the date the application reaches the PIO’s desk, though there may have been their internal departmental delays after application has reached the organisation. The PIO then ends the count on the date he signs on the letter,though his organisation may sometimes take up to ten days to actually post the letter. Whether such instances have come to notice of CIC, and if yes then what measures has CIC taken to ensure that PIOs do not delay their replies. If no such instances have come to notice of CIC, then will CIC take cognisance of the problem from information given in this application itself and take appropriate corrective measures and if yes, then what are the measures taken?
Q6. As per provisions of the RTI Act, fee and other charges need to be refunded in case of delay in reply by PIO. However PIOs whose replies are delayed wait to be asked before making the refund. Whether such instances have come to notice of CIC, and if yes then what measures has CIC taken to ensure that PIOs send refund on their own instead of waiting for applicant, who is already aggrieved, to apply again for it. If no such instances have come to notice of CIC, then will CIC take cognisance of the problem from information given in this application itself and take appropriate corrective measures and if yes, then what are the measures taken?
If you plan to ask a list of question, then don’t go thru a straight RTI application.
First send 2 or three plain letter/complaint asking for why it has not been taken care.. You can also ask your friends to write on the same subject.
After a week or so, write a RTI application thru someone totally new
1) ask for the last 5 or n complaints received regarding that issue
2) ask for file notings
3) ask for all communication sent out by the depart related to your complaint..
This is a new method invented by some unknown RTI expert to get answers for questions that are not directly answerable thru RTI, it works.
So we can post this RTI, then also take the new strategy. There is no bar to using both strategies. The new strategy suggested by skywalker will need about 18 letters for the 6 questions so far to CIC written by different persons, then 3 or 6 RTIs. Someone can do so. I can pass on the baton. Reply received to above RTI will meanwhile help in the second strategy.
We are waiting for when this RTI is moved to Drafted Section, then it will be posted.
Malathy ji
I do not see a well drafted RTI Application here and unless I see something like that, I would not move it to Filed RTI Category.
If you file this RTI and provide me a speed post number, I can still give a benefit of doubt, just becos you have spent money and so much efforts.
But to be very truthful, the current application, without drafting it effectively is not worth filing.
Let us wait, till it gets drafted in a proper format. I will try to see, if I can squeeze out some time, to draft something here..
Please do not hurry it, just for the sake of it. The sky is not going to fall down in another few weeks !!
Indeed draft suggestions are welcome, for which a couple of weeks or even a little more wait would be worth it. While drafting we need to remember that our govt is well-known all over the world for having all kinds of documentation, but the performance is missing. Our documentation is also sought by many other countries’ governments. So if we simply ask them so send us “Provide copy of your guidelines/ instructions on….”, or some such thing then the purpose may not be served. Incidentally in a recent study of tax legislation all over the world it was found that countries with low GDP have the least complex tax legislation, with the complexity going up as the GDP rises. This is expected. But what was surprising was the name of the country on top of the list, that is having the most complex tax legislation in the world. It was India, which was the only exception of such high complexity in the rules but still-to-catch-up GDP. Apart from tax legislation, in other cases also Indian govt has proliferation of rules/ notifications etc. So lets focus on getting them to shed risk-averseness and start performing.
@Malathy
As Mr. skywalker rightly mentions, RTI has become a document getting tool and that is the scope of RTI.
The scope of RTI-Anonymous is hence to get these documents, without putting the applicant under risk.
I agree with you that we have to focus on getting the govt. to start performing and just ” simply asking them so send us ‘Provide copy of your guidelines/ instructions on….’, or some such thing then the purpose may not be served”
But to go beyind that, you may want to use some other platform and not this. We are working currently behind the scenes, with a bunch of PIL lawyers and press media, to see how to take it beyind the platoform of getting this to be a document getting tool.
And that would be from a different type of platform and not RTI-A
But as of now, I would urge you to file RTI’s with the sole intention of getting the documents from the govt. and nothing beyond. Since that is the only purpose of this platform – RTI-A
Things are not quite this way, and I can rebut every point, but it’ll make the response a bit strong, so will let it be for the time being.
FYI: RTI has become a document getting tool, so there will be some change in strategy. We cant ask questions to PIO. We can still make this RTI a good tool to ensure transparency. We need to ask some complex documents, and tricky documents.
First question can be modified like this..
1) Copy of last five Second Appeals/ Complaints received at CIC that has the grounds of appeal/complaint similar to or sounds like “PIO has not made any reference to my RTI application in his reply”.
Note: Personal details contained in appeal/complaint may be masked.
2) Copy of minutes of meeting in which topics related to transfer of RTI application to more than one PA was discussed.
3)Copy of portions of rules and regulations that permits the use of short forms or cryptic forms for designations in letters, emails, & other communication and office records.
Note: If getting the above information would deviate the resource of PIO, please provide me the Names of the files/record/archive. In that case I would prefer a inspection.
4)Copy of orders/permission/No Objection Certificate received from PM Office / President Office to setup a online system for receiving Second Appeal and Complaints.
5)Copy of portions of approved Functional Requirements Document / System manual that contains the process flow of the online application for receiving and processing second appeal and complaints.
6) Copy of order/letter/email/any communication recorded that directs the CIC to ask for signed hard-copy after filing the second appeal/complaint online.
I am just compiling the 6 points, mentioned by Syedbhai into a logical format.
Please review this and see, if this is a good enough drafted RTI Applications
******************
To
The PIO,
Central Information Commission (CIC), New Delhi
Dear Sir,
Subject : Application for Information under RTI Act 2005
I XXXX , a citizen of India, request you to kindly provide me the following information under the Right to Information Act, 2005:
1) Copy of last five Second Appeals/ Complaints received at CIC that has the grounds of appeal/complaint similar to or sounds like “PIO has not made any reference to my RTI application in his reply”.
2) Copy of minutes of meeting in which topics related to transfer of RTI application to more than one PA was discussed.
3)Copy of portions of rules and regulations that permits the use of short forms or cryptic forms for designations in letters, emails, & other communication and office records.
Note: If getting the above information would deviate the resource of PIO, please provide me the Names of the files/record/archive. In that case I would prefer a inspection.
4)Copy of orders/permission/No Objection Certificate received from PM Office / President Office to setup a online system for receiving Second Appeal and Complaints.
5)Copy of portions of approved Functional Requirements Document / System manual that contains the process flow of the online application for receiving and processing second appeal and complaints.
6) Copy of order/letter/email/any communication recorded that directs the CIC to ask for signed hard-copy after filing the second appeal/complaint online.
Reg. Q1. If we get copies of last five appeals/ complaints, so how will that force PIOs to start quoting reference numbers from now on? In the original draft on top, CIC is being forced to pass orders now itself taking current application as the basis.
@Malathy: If you are asking CIC to pass orders to all PIO to quote RTI application reference in the reply, then it will not happend thru RTI.
You have to file a petition.
OR
You can go for a second appeal/complaint against a PIO where he did not mention the reference to RTI application, and appear before the IC and argue in such a way that he may pass an order that sends a clear message to all PIO to quote the refernce of RTI application.
Sir, the question then is, why has not mr skywalker so far with others lodged the required PIL, because this problem of PIOs not citing reference number is not a problem ever faced by me but is being faced by RTI-Anon? Pl do so and I will not stop it. CIC has not barred RTI + PIL on any issue, so above RTI will go.
This RTI will be printed and posted after 5th March 2012, and speedpost number will be mentioned here.
Dear Sir
As specified by you, have you filed this RTI on 5th March 2012 ? If so, please provide me the speed post number of the same
I think that the PIOs, who do not send the information against RTI queries in stipulated 30 days, do it under the verbal directives of their higher-ups. After all, in the majority of such cases, the PIOs only forward or compile the information received from different sources in the same organisation. I think it is done with the objective to frustrate the applicant with lengthy and time taking procedures. Applying to the First Appellate Authority and subsequently getting date for hearing before CIC takes around 1 year. Not providing any information is a serious malpractice. Instead of making only the PIO accountable, the concerned head of the organisation, should be made a party and accountable by the CIC / statute. Then only the cases of delaying, not providing information in time etc. may be reduced.
Observation by mr sunilsharma is valid and will be included in final draft of the RTI.